Cold Open With AI Jingle

SPEAKER_00 0:07

Where we create feelings for growth data I named. And every week we sit down with the architect of the world's most successful funnel to figure out what is actually moving the needle today. If you want to scale smarter, don't go anywhere.

SPEAKER_03 0:45

And I'm one of the architects of the world's most successful funnels.

SPEAKER_02 0:51

Oh, I thought your name was name.

SPEAKER_03 0:56

Who's saying my name's not name?

SPEAKER_02 0:59

I guess I guess we can't say definitively.

SPEAKER_03 1:08

I think we should rename our podcast to Moving the Needle.

SPEAKER_02 1:11

Moving the Needle. I like it. I'm a fan of that a lot. I'm so blown away by that. I I feel like it was either a really exceptionally well-executed podcast intro or some type of like I don't know, do you commercials you used to see like in your childhood when they were advertising some kind of like exercise class or like limited time CD or like some promotion at the at the mall? It sounded like some combination of all the above. What uh what why don't you tell the people what it actually is?

SPEAKER_03 1:51

Yeah, so uh our um initial jingo jing jingle? Why I don't know why I said jingo. Uh our initial jingle uh was this AI generated song that we did, I want to say like two or maybe three years ago now, like back when AI was still relatively nascent and you know it was just generated by AI, and we thought it was amazing that we could like create shitty music with just a prompt. And uh I got an email from Google saying that oh, we have this this new model, Lyria 3, as part of like Gemini or whatever. Now you can create like your your music or whatever. So I put in a prompt. Uh I'm uh degenerate host of a marketing qualified podcast along with my co-host Mike. Um generate a new uh intro and outro jingle for this podcast where we just basically rant about all things marketing, and that was what it came up with.

SPEAKER_02 2:51

That's what you got.

SPEAKER_03 2:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:54

Uh what a believe the hype about all the advancement in AI models and accuracy. That uh that's now I have to say the the the narrator did bear a striking audio resemblance to our our our beloved Naomi. That is one thing that struck me. Yeah, sounded very familiar.

SPEAKER_03 3:16

Uh still gonna get her back on at some point. We should uh I mean I I definitely like the intro jingle like better leads, faster growth. Like it's kind of stuck in my head. It's kind of like uh oh god, what's what's that that commercial that's that that always gets stuck in my head?

SPEAKER_02 3:34

Um Cars for Kids.

SPEAKER_03 3:36

Yes. Is it actually that's actually what I was thinking of. I I was completely drawing a blink. Um Wow. Yeah, it's amazing. We could be the next cars for kids. Like people everywhere won't be able to get our shitty jingle out of their heads. That's insane.

SPEAKER_02 3:53

Yeah, I think there's real potential there. Also, I wonder if we I wonder if we have the sophistication to overlay the cars for kids, like little tune in the audio if we really don't know what the hell we're talking about.

SPEAKER_03 4:04

If you're basically younger than 25, you probably don't know what we'll uh we'll throw we'll throw that in there during uh post-production. We always call it like the editing process. We gotta be legit about it, Mike. We gotta call it post-production.

SPEAKER_02 4:15

You're right, you're right. Let's give ourselves some type of like, I don't know, fake credibility

Podcast Name Debate And Agenda

SPEAKER_02 4:20

here.

SPEAKER_03 4:20

So uh I guess we'll just spend the rest of this the this free Zoom talking about whether we should rename our podcast to podcast name or moving the needle.

SPEAKER_02 4:30

Yes, exactly. Uh and maybe we'll get some input from AI, see what they think there, what they, it, it thinks. You can't go humanizing it. Come on. Come on. Uh, one thing we do want to humanize though is some of the shit we want to talk about. So on the docket today is actually uh GPT, chat GPT, uh, and ads. You mentioned that you have recently got uh your hands on this, starting to do some preliminary stuff here, discussion about what that looks like, uh, what it means to actually be AI native. That's something that you and I were discussing via uh text message, and we uh we should we should filter out some of the words that we were using during that text dialogue. We should have an on-air conversation about that. Uh we also want to talk about speaking of we don't need to filter anything.

SPEAKER_03 5:12

I I explicitly mark this podcast as explicit.

SPEAKER_02 5:16

You're absolutely correct.

SPEAKER_03 5:17

Let it rip the fuck we want.

SPEAKER_02 5:21

And and and and we shall. Um speaking of other like shitty things, uh, this freelance company, um, we you went through something, I've had some shitty experiences. We're gonna bear some grievances there. Uh we're gonna potentially time pending revisit something that we've talked about in the past when it comes to like the gate or ungate debate. Uh there is a recent rollout uh that's been detected, if not more formally announced, when it comes to like LinkedIn's algorithm and what that's gonna do to your favorite social media platform in terms of content that's served up to you there. Uh mandatorily requesting AI usage for ICs heavy on AI today. And then I have a simple question for you at the end here, Chris, and that is I'm gonna ask you uh how pissed off would you be? And you get no context. So we're gonna try to head today.

SPEAKER_03 6:08

Let's actually just reverse the order. I actually kind of want to start with that one and then kind of go from there.

SPEAKER_02 6:13

You sure you want to get mad right away?

SPEAKER_03 6:15

Yeah. But the caveat is that if you're gonna ask me that question, like am I rating myself on like a scale of one to ten? Ten being pure off one being not as pissed off.

SPEAKER_02 6:26

Yeah, you know what? We're gonna we're gonna tweak this because you know what? I I think you're gonna get a nice head of steam after talking about the the freelance company. So perhaps uh we can use that as our baseline establishment for your level of anger, and then I will pose this question to you to see where it falls into. See, we can be we can be marketing, we can be scientific with this stuff. So uh okay. Well, let's get into the first

First Look At ChatGPT Ads

SPEAKER_02 6:49

one then here. Before we before before we piss Chris off, let's let's let's hear what he has to say about chat GPT ads. Uh the floor is yours.

SPEAKER_03 6:57

Um yeah, so the it's currently rolling out, it's it's still in in beta, so it might be one of those things like Google where like things Gmail was in beta for like 10 years or whatever. But um, I recently got access to chat GPT ads. Um gonna try testing it with a couple clients that don't mind wasting some money. But um yeah, I mean my initial thoughts are the interface seems pretty bare bones, which I think is actually a benefit. So like ChatGPT and meta or uh sorry, uh Google Ads and Meta ads, you use both interfaces, right? Like you've you've run ads in both and and as well. Their interfaces are such a clusterfuck of just like random shit that like 90% of it you don't even need to use, or like you don't even need to look at. Um the reporting's terrible in these, even though they have all these features and everything. And ChatGPT ads is pretty bare bones, but I think that's actually a benefit because it helps you really focus on the strategy and not all the other little levers and all the other bullshit that get that Google gives you to like tweak campaigns and stuff. Like it helps you kind of distill everything down to what's the strategy, what's the keywords or you know, stuff I want to use, like there's no advanced targeting or anything. And I think it's kind of like it reminds me of what Google Ads was like 20 years ago when it was first getting started before it got into this bloated mess, which I mean tends to perform pretty well for for a lot of my clients, but um yeah, I I am curious to hear Chat GPTI to see how they perform because I know that they were doing testing like a closed beta, like you you couldn't even get into it if you wanted to, like they would reach out to you if they wanted to let you take let you give them money kind of thing. Right.

SPEAKER_02 8:44

Of course.

SPEAKER_03 8:44

And I I think it was a lot of bigger brands that were doing it, so I don't know how well this is gonna work for smaller brands. And I'm also skeptical with how well it's gonna work for B2B. Uh just because most companies, I feel like these days, like in-house companies, like they're they're gonna be paying for some level of enterprise service, like whether you're a startup or a mid-market or an enterprise level company, you likely already have some AI plan in place, like a team AI plan, like a team cloud plan, or a team Chat GPT business plan or Gemini or or whatever. And if you're trying to target B2B buyers, I feel like ChatGPT might not be the best place to go with that, because they only show ads on the free tier. So like if you're if you're part of a company that uses Chat GPT, like you're you're on a paid plan, you're never gonna see the ads to begin with. Whereas Google, like I could be logged into my Google Workspace account, you know, doing work for my company, but I'll still see ads if I Google like best uh you know, marketing analytics software or something, then I see that the ads up there. Whereas if I was asking ChatGPT what the best marketing analytics software is, I wouldn't see the ad because I would be on a paid plane.

SPEAKER_02 9:57

Right, right, exactly. So like I'm I'm gonna go out and I'm gonna make an educated assumption here, and that is that most people, specifically I think about like the dichotomy of B2B versus B2C, right? To your point, a lot of people in B2B that uh we'll talk about like the uh the the the IC mandate of adopting AI usage, right, as like a later episode agenda item. A lot of these people are gonna be on the paid plans. So if you're a B2B marketer trying to engage with B2B folks via AEO, you might already be at a disadvantage, right? Because the people you're trying to get the GPT ads in front of are probably not gonna see them anyhow because they're on a paid plan, right? And I'm wondering if if if the if you think then that like the chat GPT ads are actually a better bid for like a D2C kind of company, right? So like the the the the normal the the normie as some of my podcasts that I listen to call is like the non-marketing folks, the non like working professionals, right, that are doing research and popping ads up there. Um, what what's your reaction to that?

SPEAKER_03 10:52

It seems No, I I I definitely agree. Like I've I've actually talked to a couple D2C companies or like B B2C companies that are testing these out when I've heard that CPMs are like astronomically high, which I mean I personally don't give a fuck what a CPM is. Like I'm happy to pay like a $20,000 CPM, you know, if it's getting me the conversions and and you know the sales that I want. Like, you know, if if it's super expensive to reach these people because it's so highly targeted, but they're actually converting, the CPM doesn't matter. Like all I look at is like cost per acquisition or cost per lead or you know, whatever the case may be.

SPEAKER_02 11:28

Um yes, yes, yeah. Uh it makes me actually there there was a there was something I saw recently, and the person was like, um, for people that are basically the argument about taking out an ad, right, in chat GPT, or even like trying to solve for showing up in the organic results there, the same is behind think about a traditional like branded Google ad group, right? And that is like it's high intent, people are looking for you. You are unlikely to be discovered for the first time via an ad for like non-branded stuff. Like, I don't think anyone's gonna take out a chat GPT ad for like you know, a top-of-funnel like long tail query of yesterday here, right? But you might take it out for like a branded one, so like you're showing off for some of the more high-intent branded and non-branded stuff here. Um, you still have to like generate the demand elsewhere, though. Right. Right. So like to your point about like paying whatever for the CPMs, like this is these are people that by and large are gonna have some level of brand familiarity with you. They're clearly like in market for the specific thing that you offer because they're fucking looking you up in Chat GPT here, right? And like if you think about the the CAC for what that would look like, not necess not necessarily like branded stuff.

SPEAKER_03 12:52

Like, I I I was thinking more along the lines of like non-branded too. Like I could definitely see people you know wanting to advertise their brand and like get you know branded searches. So like if somebody's asking Chat GPT a specific question about your brand and an ad shows up, is that kind of what you're talking about?

SPEAKER_02 13:06

That's what I was thinking. Yeah, so you're saying non-branded would actually be where you put the dollars behind.

SPEAKER_03 13:11

Yeah, so like if I'm asking like what's the best uh what's the best hotel to stay at in Paris and the Marriott wants to show an an ad versus you know the st you know I I think the way it works is it'll still show like the standard result, but then it'll give you like an image and like a sponsored placement of it'll draw more attention to the ad for whatever um yeah, and I also don't know I I sh I sh should look this up. I I think that if there if an ad shows in Chat GPT, I think your ad is the only one that shows.

SPEAKER_02 13:42

Oh, that's interesting.

SPEAKER_03 13:43

Let me actually continue.

SPEAKER_02 13:44

Yeah, I just uh while you're doing that, I took a look on my end here because I had not seen one before, or even like a mock-up of it, but you're exactly right. It's I my chat GPT, like my computer in general is on like dark mode, right? And so it if you have like a light background, it makes it jump out even more. It's very clearly labeled as like a sponsored result. You have a little bit of like a creative section here, right? And then the usual like ad copy that you think about displaying on like a usual, a usual like single image ad almost, or like a Google ad.

SPEAKER_03 14:09

Yeah, and it it says that it does show a maximum of one ad unit per conversation response. Um an advertiser can an advertiser can have multiple

The B2B Problem With Paid Plans

SPEAKER_03 14:20

ads within the response, but it won't show multiple advertisers.

SPEAKER_02 14:25

So it's basically like taking out what is the Google Ads terminology, like the absolute top of page position for each time that you win the auction for it. Interesting.

SPEAKER_03 14:34

I mean, even with Google Ads, like you'll see like three to four competitors as well for that term. Like you might be at the very top, but you'll people can also see other ads within the top. So I mean that alone makes me understand why the CPMs are so high. Like those, like having no other ads on the page is inherently more valuable than having four to show from. Because like each one of those four is gonna be paying, or I mean, you're not paying them unless they click, but each one of those four is gonna get a reported impression for that, even though one of them, if any, will get the click.

SPEAKER_02 15:10

Mm-hmm. Yeah, that makes a ton of sense. Because especially for some of like the more competitive keywords you think about like bidding on, right? Like those are just more expensive in general, right? So to kind of elbow your way against all the other competitors that might be going after the similar thing and have it just be you, you're exactly right. Like, of course that's gonna cost money because you're you're you're every time uh that you're being surfaced. So yeah, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_03 15:35

It's also interesting too, because like even on the on a personal level, like I have ChatGPT Plus for um like I have Claude Max for like my my business. Like Claude's like the main AI tool I use for like productivity and everything. I also have ChatGPT Plus, which I'm probably gonna be canceling soon. And then and then I just won't use Chat GPT anymore. I would I'll just use Claude because it's way better. But um I'm also thinking too, like, if somebody is you know a heavy AI user, they're probably even if they're not affiliated with a company that has like a paid plan or whatever, they might already be having they might already pay for a paid plan. Like I think that you know there's the $20 chat GPT. I think I think that there's even like an $8 one um as well. I'm gonna confirm that right now. It's actually kind of funny. I I I just Googled ChatGPT plans and I just clicked on a Google sponsored result for the ChatGPT plans. So they're they're advertising on Google, but yeah, ChatGPT has a Go plan, which is eight dollars a month. Um then uh then the plus plan, which is the standard one for twenty, and then um the free plan. Like I I'm wondering too if like if somebody's just on the free plan, like are they really gonna be as inclined to pay if as much as if somebody was on the go or the plus plan? Like that's one of the things about Google is if you're paying for like Google Workspace or like other you know subscriptions and everything, everyone sees the same the same potential ads versus with only the free users see the ads.

SPEAKER_02 17:05

Dude, I've gotta think it's just a matter of time before the ads start creeping up into like the lower paying as well, right? There's just there's just no way that doesn't happen for some of the reasons that you're mentioning, right? Like what incentive I mean, sure they get their money from like the business subscription plans, like paid plans and what have you, but like advertising is always gonna be uh just like a I don't know, it is something that the revenue stream that they're gonna want to tap into, just generic bay, not just chat GPT.

SPEAKER_03 17:28

I I think what's gonna happen, like it'll be interesting to see how the competitors react because like pretty much all the like Claude and Gemini, I think all the plans are roughly around $20 a month. Yeah, um I could definitely see because like they're losing money, like even like each of these companies is losing a ton of money even on the plus plan. Um so it's kind of a loss leader for them. Like Google can definitely absorb that hit because they're they have like the biggest ad machine printing money anyway. So like same with meta, like if meta had an AI tool, like they could definitely absorb that hit, just like they absorb that $64 billion loss from Universe. But um OpenAI, like I don't think they can absorb it quite as much. Like I could definitely see them, you know, jacking the plus plan to like 40-50 bucks a month, and at that point that might become too much for some some people, so they could downgrade to the free plan right around the time that like the ads are really ramping up, so you know you get more people getting the ads in general because they they don't want to pay for the the plus plan.

SPEAKER_02 18:22

Right, right. Just a quick side tangent

Deck-Building Tools And Credit Traps

SPEAKER_02 18:25

here on like paid plans and what have you. So I uh you and I were texting about this as well for a full-time job interview that I got. Um I got far enough along to get to the case study portion of it, you know, how those we've talked about that on previous podcasts. Uh I shared me the prompt, and you you you and my wife were just like, yeah, fuck that, dude. Put it into put it into like chat GPT or whatever, like do the thing. And so I I listened uh as I uh so what I did was I actually took myself there was a prompt, there were all these ideas I had swimming around on the old noggin. I recorded myself basically dictating like responses to the prompt and giving like guidance in terms of like okay, new slide section or whatever the case is. And then you know what I did because I saw I saw these ads um ad nauseum recently on the subway in in New York. And as I used, I I tried Gen Spark, right? Their whole thing, one prompt, bunch of shit happens, then like they spit out a deck or whatever. And so I was like, here's this recording, here is the URL of the website of the company that I'm applying to take my transcription and the website URL and put together a deck broken out based on like the guidance that I put together in here. Well, guess what, Chris? I made it through uh one free account on one Gmail before it was like, oh, you're out of uh like free credits or whatever. So what do I do? I use one of my other emails and I took all the prompts that I had used to that point, put it in a single fucking prompt, and had it start to generate the thing. Well, guess what? It gets three slides deep into putting it together. It's like you're out of credits, you gotta upgrade to this plan. And is $25 for like a one-off expense worth the multiple hours it would take me to do this thing if I were doing it myself? So I bit the bullet and I ended up like paying to have this thing produce the rest of the deck for me. It came out pretty slick, I have to say. There are some like drawbacks to some of the tables that produced in there, don't inherently link to like you know, a Google sheet with like the data that's back then. It's just very much like a visual component. But I got positive, I got positive feedback on how the deck actually is. I used that a couple of other times uh for one of like my consulting clients, just putting together like strategy decks and what have you, using the same type of type of approach. The quality started to go down a little bit, and my credits I ripped through them real quick. So now it wants me, you have a choice with Gen Spark. You can either buy a one-off pack of uh, I think it's an 11,000 additional credits for another 20 bucks, or I could change my monthly subscription plan to something like $55, whatever, and get the total quantity of credits month over. And I totally get why people, uh, like Uber infamously, right, has already ripped through their AI credit budget for the entirety of the year. And I get why that's happening. I'm saying all this to say like eventually the people are gonna get pissed, usage is gonna go down because of these ridiculous like credit things, and so they're going to have to bring us back to what we're talking about, they're gonna have to pivot into just opening up advertisements to other tiers of the product that are that are gonna be used. So it uh it's inevitable, is the main point I'm trying to make here.

SPEAKER_03 21:20

Yeah. Um, I mean you you hit a couple things that I actually want to dive deeper on. Maybe in in an additional podcast we can talk about this a little bit more detail, but um, I actually did just confirm, so like in between you mentioning uh that you think that the ads are gonna creep into the the lower tier again now, um the pricing page actually says under the go tier, the eight dollar a month plan, this plan may include ads. Really? It may, it may not. We'll flip it. I'm I'm kind of I'm kind of joking. Uh it it does say that in the fine print that the $8 plan may include ads. I don't think it just launched during the course of this conversation. That'd be really cool though. Uh it's almost like they're listening. Uh Sam Alman, if you're listening. Fuck you. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, the way they phrase it, this may include ads. May not. Right. But uh yeah, I mean, you know, I think it's either it's only a matter of time until they jack up the price of the $20 plan or they start including ads in in those additional plans as well. But the bigger thing that I want to touch on is um when you mentioned that you you added one of your Gmails and then you switched over to a different Gmail to like get more

Switching Costs And Importing AI Memory

SPEAKER_03 22:25

credits or whatever, like a different login or whatever. That brings up an interesting topic where I feel like all these companies want to follow the same playbook where they get you locked into your ecosystem. Like it's virtually impossible for me to ever leave Apple at this point. Like I've got 15 years of like or 50 or more, you know, probably like you know, 17, 18 years now at this point of like iPhone usage and app history, and like like I I can't switch to Android even if I wanted to without losing everything that I built up in the Apple Apple ecosystem. Right, right. I feel like these companies are also gonna try to do the same thing with AI, where it's like like switching from ChatGPT when they pissed me off over to Claude was a pain in the ass because like Chat GPT knows me. It's almost like switching, like it's like switching like breaking up with a girlfriend who like knows your history and knows that you don't like you know something on your pasta, and then that you get a new girlfriend, and then she starts putting the stuff on the pasta, you're like, oh, I have to go through this all again. I fucking hate this on my you know. Um so like switching switching AIs, I feel like there's definitely gonna be a switching cost associated with that because like Claude or uh uh ChatGPT knew me, it like knew what I like to be called, it knew that I didn't like working late at night, you know, like all these other things, and uh switching to Cloud, like it was like starting over from scratch. But actually, recently, like last weekend, I was playing around with Gemini a little bit and I noticed that they have this new feature where you can import your previous AI's memory to Gemini. Like it even like tells you like the prompt that it wants you to give. Like the I'm actually gonna read the prompt here that Gemini gives you. So, like if you're switching over from ChatGBT, it gives you this very specific prompt. Uh you're helping me import context from when one AI assistant to another. Your job is to go through our past conversations and sum up what you know about me. In the output, please avoid using any first person pronouns and any second person pronouns. Instead, refer to the individual you have learned about as the user or use neutral phr phrasing. So it's kind of interesting that Google would like include that, because like there's a whole thing about like all the the only people who call uh their you know customers users are drug dealers and like companies like Google. Um then it goes on uh preserve the user's words verbatim where possible, especially for instruction and preferences, yada yada yada categories, output in this order, format, divide the content into labels sections in the category above, um, include dates when possible, output output only the requested information, do not include any conversational filler, intro text, or sign-offs. Finally, complete the sentence, imported from name, where name is chat GPT, Claude, Groc, etc. This must be the absolute final text in your response. So Google put all this together in a very specific prompt that you give to your AI when you switch over. So like it's gonna be interesting to see how how like m you know the memory and like the context and like everything that the AI has when you Yeah, like I kind of want to give that exact prompt at ChatGPT just to see what it says. Like I could see them start being like you know, not letting you generate all that because they don't want you switching, you know.

SPEAKER_02 25:39

Well, that's kind of what I'm thinking, right? And like my other thought is and forgive me if we talked about this before, but like in the there there's a there's a setting automatically that you can model, especially in pain's correct, where it's like do not use all my chat history prompts, etc. Right to like train the model, right? Right. And so, okay, cool, cool, cool. Because like that that's another thing I could imagine doing the case. Like they maybe maybe they start to offer this as like a free of charge, like we won't burn any credits uh importing all this stuff in for you, but you must let us use it to train the model as well. Just some like nefarious kind of like you know, uh quid pro quo, I think is the the word I'm looking for here. Um let's see here. I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna assume though that none of this is really gonna be like that big of a bother for you because your AI. Are you oh my god, you're just quick watching people on the audio format. I just looked up and Chris had Chris had disappeared. I didn't know it. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 26:42

Um, for the audio format, um, I need to hop off to a different call in uh in five minutes. So I have a standing desk. I was just sitting, and I just raised the stand the standing desk so it goes up automatically when I push a button. And you just see Mike, uh you just see me on the screen and Mike looking very confused as I slowly fade out of view, and then Mike's just like standing there puzzled, like, where the fuck did he go? And then I just like stood up and appeared from the bottom of the screen.

SPEAKER_02 27:07

It's like, do I need to call your wife? Is he hurt? Is there like a medical emergency? My god. Uh well, you just mentioned it. You have some important stuff to get to, so we'll kind of like reorder our stuff to get through and as per usual, circle back to uh some of the other stuff later. What I was gonna say is that none of this should be an issue for you, though, right? Because you're AI native, aren't you?

SPEAKER_03 27:29

I think we're gonna have to table this for the for the next call. Uh AI native is one of those things that I think it's such a fucking stupid term that um three minutes or whatever we have left in this free zoom isn't nearly enough time for me to get into how much bullshit that is. Um do we have time for the uh the angry reactions? Because I'm definitely feeling a little pissed off, but I don't know if we should table that for next time as well.

SPEAKER_02 27:52

Oh no, no, no. What you feel right now is but a mere simmer before the pot begins to boil over of anger. We certainly don't want to rush through that, right? Don't want to give want to give you a chance to really expunge all of these angry demons. So yeah, we'll we'll pocket that for next time as well. All right.

SPEAKER_03 28:08

Well, what I'll do is I'm gonna go into Chat GPT and write my feelings down, exactly how I'm feeling right now, and then uh ask it to summarize

Closing Thoughts And Listener Requests

SPEAKER_03 28:15

how I was feeling for the next podcast so that I can get right back into uh right back into the the zone so you can we can share it.

SPEAKER_02 28:24

Uh men will do anything but go to therapy. Uh uh that sounds good. Uh what will be therapeutic for you will be crushing this uh this interview that you are headed to. Uh best of luck to you, best of luck to our our our listeners as as we go about uh putting that fun new intro theme song in your earbuds. And uh come back, come back next time. We got a lot of stuff we got to talk about here, so you uh you won't be disappointed and we'd love you to weigh in as well. So leave us some fan mail, um, angry, angry mention us on Instagram. Uh let us know your thoughts.

SPEAKER_03 28:59

Oh, and uh one last closing uh thought. Um, for all the people who keep emailing us, uh asking to be on the podcast, you're not fooling either of us. I know that you didn't listen to this, I know that it's just some AI-generated outreach tool to try to get your CEO a podcast placement or whatever. So I'm not falling for it. I'm not falling for it. If you actually want to be on the podcast, uh fill out a form on our website. I don't know if there's a form there right now, and I don't really care. But uh you're not fooling anybody. Until we get more listeners, I don't think anyone's gonna come on this podcast. Unless your name is Salty Dan. Salty Dan's will come back anytime.

SPEAKER_02 29:32

Any old time. That's right. Uh good deal. Take that. Go look for that form on our site that's probably not there, and we will talk to you guys next time around. Be well, everybody. We'll see you. Bye y'all. Good luck, man.